Jew World Order

TONY JONES, PRESENTER: Over the past few days mining billionaire Clive Palmer has launched a very public campaign against paid lobbyists holding high offices in the Liberal Party.

Two vice presidents of the party, Alexander Downer and Santo Santoro are lobbyists who would have to step aside if the Palmer idea was ever to become policy.

The issue sparked a bitter spat between Mr Palmer and Tony Abbott and today the ‘Australian’ linked the issue to a push for the Liberal National Party president Bruce McIver to challenge for the federal Liberal presidency.

Well further to this murky party rivalry, Lateline has confirmed today that Santo Santoro, a former Queensland senator, approached the ABC boss Mark Scott at a function in April with an informal offer to do lobbying work for the national broadcaster in the event the Coalition wins the next federal election.

Well for his take on what’s going on in the Queensland branch of the party and on today’s extraordinary debate in federal parliament let’s cross live to Clive Palmer in Brisbane.

Let’s go first to the debate in parliament. What do you think of the way this debate has unfolded?

CLIVE PALMER, MINING ENTREPRENEUR: It’s disappointing because it’s the obfuscation of the Australian Government and the Opposition from the international legal obligations to process refugees here. Why can’t Australians do it effectively? Why do people have to die to get a reason to be heard? We’re capable of processing people quickly.

We can send the ones back who are queue jumpers or who are not legitimate refugees. We don’t have to give our rights away to Indonesians or Malaysians. Australians are capable of doing that and meet their international obligations. 100 men and women and more have died because of the inaction of our politicians, it’s time it stopped and people took the matter seriously.

TONY JONES: Was Tony Abbott right, do you believe, to say comprehensively reject the Government’s offshore processing legislation on the basis that Malaysia is not a signatory to the refugee convention?

CLIVE PALMER: Look, you can throw the lot of them out, it doesn’t matter if it’s Tony Abbott or Julia Gillard. The situation is men and women are dying, the Government needs to act. Everyone knows what will happen in the Senate, how long it will be delayed. They should get together and make sure that Australia accepts its international obligations. Australians are capable of doing this. It’s costing us billions and billions of dollars for money to be spent overseas. We can do it here much cheaper, much faster and much quicker if we had a competent Government.

TONY JONES: Have you had this argument with Tony Abbott because it sounds like you’ve had one or two other passionate discussions with him?

CLIVE PALMER: I believe that, that as you know on the lobbyist question, it’s as old as the scriptures, it’s as clear as night and day that people who take money to peddle influence shouldn’t be in high offices of the Labor Party, the National Party, the Greens or the Liberal Party. That’s not the conflict you want to be in.

TONY JONES: Who are the key lobbyists who currently hold high office in the Liberal Party?

CLIVE PALMER: Well I don’t know exactly. I know Alexander is not a lobbyist as you said earlier. We know Santo Santoro is a lobbyist because he’s on the register and it’s concerning that he approached the ABC if the Liberal Party are elected he wanted to be appointed a lobbyist and he sought financial benefit in that regard. Certainly as Liberal vice president he shouldn’t do that.

How would that look in estimates when the ABC a taxpayers organisation, pays the taxpayers money to Santo Santoro so they can get access to their own minister Malcolm Turnbull. It’s a shocking situation, it’s an indictment on the system and it’s time it was cleaned up not just in the Liberal Party. Labor’s been very quiet about this and I wonder why. People shouldn’t take money for political favours. It’s as simple as that.

TONY JONES: I should make this point, I understand also this was an unprompted and informal approach and the ABC is not in the market evidently for a lobbyist and made that clear or has made that clear.

CLIVE PALMER: Well the question is it wasn’t approached and how do you take an approach from someone who is the vice president of a national political party which could soon be in Government? Do you take it as a threat? Do you take it if you don’t employ me there will be retribution to you? Is that how you take it?

Is that the sort of society we want to live in? Certainly there’s got to be a perceived honesty in government. We saw what happened with Mr Fitzgerald when he said in Queensland there was a culture developing of this sort of thing. We don’t want this sort of culture in our leading political parties be they Labor, National, the Greens or anyone else.

This is about ethics it’s not about policy. It’s about what the difference between right and wrong and the Queensland LNP has passed a resolution, has implemented it, that no paid political lobbyists hold positions in our party here in Queensland and I’m a delegate to the federal council and I’ve got an obligation to put that point of view. It’s one I actually agree with for the Liberal Party but it’s much wider than that. The Labor Party and all the parties must realise that Australians don’t want this.

TONY JONES: This Santoro approach was certainly a surprising one because as senator he was a known and quite fierce critic of the ABC. Are you surprised to hear that he would be offering his services?

CLIVE PALMER: Well, I mean I am disappointed because I’m sure the Australian publics disappointed that they expect more of their politicians and Tony Abbott, I’m sure, is disappointed over something like this. This is, of course, where it leads to where you don’t have a squeaky clean system and you don’t have good corporate governance, this sort of abuse.

I would have interpreted that if I’d been the head of the ABC as a threat. If you don’t employ me there will be retributions and my criticism will become reality if the Liberals get in power. That’s how I would have interpreted it if I was the head of the ABC. I think we’re very lucky he didn’t interpret that way and it’s a national disgrace. It wouldn’t matter if it was the vice president of the Labor Party. This thing shouldn’t go on with publicly funded bodies.

TONY JONES: You’ve obviously had a pretty fierce argument with Tony Abbott about this very issue. Did you raise this particular issue, the Santoro approach to the ABC with Tony Abbott?

CLIVE PALMER: Well, no, I’ve just learned of it recently but I think it’s appalling. I raised the proposition of our resolution that we shouldn’t have paid political lobbyists holding positions. They should decide do they want to be lobbyists or party executives. Nobody should be barred from serving but everyone should have a high standard of, to me I was puzzled that Tony Abbott didn’t agree with me. Didn’t agree with me quite violently I’d say.

TONY JONES: Would you expect him on the basis of this information would you expect him to rethink his position?

CLIVE PALMER: Well, I think a mistake doesn’t become an error until you refuse to correct it and we need to correct it fully. Both ourselves, what’s important now is not me or Tony Abbott or anyone but a proper outcome so there’s transparency and people know they can vote for a party in confidence that it will express the policies of that party and someone else can’t buy them.

If I paid a person $1 million to do something for me I’d bloody well want to make sure he did it and of course that’s the sort of money they pay some of these lobbyists and if they don’t get the job done they’ll be disappointed. You know if these people happen to be presidents and vice presidents of a major national party it’s a matter of concern because they should be expressing the views of their members be they Labor, Liberal, Greens or National.

TONY JONES: Now evidently this issue is due to come up at a federal executive meeting, how would you expect that discussion to pan out?

CLIVE PALMER: Well, of course, there’s a lot of lobbyists in different parties, I don’t know, but the point is we’ve raised these issues because they’re right. Barry O’Farrell in NSW has adopted them, we’ve adopted them in Queensland and I’d encourage Julia Gillard, Wayne Swan and Christine Milne and the Greens, Warren Truss and the Nationals to ensure there’s this transparency.

It’s a standard we can all aspire to be and that’s what we are have to do and insist on. Whether we win on the weekend or not is not what matters. We will gone on from there. We will never and I will never tolerate as a member of a party that I’m a member whether a paid political lobbyist receiving money to influence power. And that’s a matter of principle, and that’s about something I believe in.

We’ve been through the Fitzgerald inquiry in Queensland. That cost us a lot of time in opposition and we’re not going to blow the trust of the people now.

TONY JONES: Did you know about this approach, the Santoro approach to the ABC before tonight?

CLIVE PALMER: Yeah, I did, I knew about it yesterday and I was very concerned about it.

TONY JONES: How did you, I’ve got to ask you how did you learn about it and what were you told about it?

CLIVE PALMER: Well I understood that the head of the ABC made a complaint to a senior shadow ministers that they were concerned about this. That’s what I heard. I wasn’t sure if it was right but I knew that you’re a very tough journalist and I knew you’d get to the bottom of it.

TONY JONES: Well I mean you’ve sort of outed yourself as a source in that regard.

CLIVE PALMER: Well, actually, it’s a matter of concern, isn’t it? It’s a matter of concern for all Australians. It’s not something to push under the carpet. It’s something to bring out in front and deal with it. I’m sure the Liberal Party is capable of dealing with it. It’s got to be dealt with, it can’t be pushed aside and the Labor Party has got to deal with it for the lobbyists on their executive and say that’s not good enough. We’ve got to set the standard if we believe in democracy in this country to ensure it is democracy.

That it can’t be bought by foreign corporation and government doesn’t go to the highest bidder. The refugees don’t drown because people separate husbands from wives, children from parents and things like that. What sort of people are we to do that sort of thing to people? It’s all because it’s a decay on who we are and what we stand for and where we come from. We’ve got to re-establish this country’s roots and move in the right direction.

TONY JONES: What do you believe is behind Tony Abbott’s position on this lobbying issue?

CLIVE PALMER: I’m puzzled. He may have a miscomprehension. Certainly this issue should be the gravest concern for him and I’d call upon him to make a clear statement that he appals the approach to federally funded organisations by lobbyists who are members of his own party. I think that’s the least he can do. It’s got to set the record straight that this isn’t what the Liberal Party stands for. It stands for more much more than that.

TONY JONES: On a related matter are you disappointed that Tony Abbott convinced your Queensland party president Bruce McIver not to challenge Alan Stockdale for the federal presidency of the Liberal Party?

CLIVE PALMER: Well I’m a great supporter of Bruce because he’s the most successful political leader in the history of this nation and organisational sense. The result in Queensland was outstanding, there are only seven members of the Opposition and he brought the LNP together and he’s a visionary leader. But of course I know he doesn’t want to be federal president. I know he’s a reluctant warrior but I’m sure if there’s a job to be done, if there’s things to be cleaned up he’s happy to make his contribution as I am.

TONY JONES: I’ll interrupt you just for a moment there. He may be a reluctant warrior but according to his own statement to the ‘Australian’ today he was convinced by Tony Abbott not to make a challenge so he must have been considering it?

CLIVE PALMER: Well a lot of people would say it’s good to drift into government, not to stand for anything, let the other people make the mistake. I don’t think that’s the case. I believe that ethical provisions and things like that become more important than policy and that we have to be honest with the Australian people have got confidence in us. I’ve been a party member for 43 years. As Tony Abbott said I’m just an ordinary party member, I’m entitled to my view but in federal council I’m a delegate representing Queensland.

I have to represent their view the best I can and now we’ve seen what’s happened. We’ve seen it be confirmed that Santo Santoro a registered lobbyist, has said if the Liberal Party gets into Government you better have me as a lobbyist. I think that’s disgusting because its taxpayers’ money will be paying his fees. That would come out in the estimates and in Treasury and what would happen then? Any leader worth his salt doesn’t want that to happen in this country.

TONY JONES: It’s not going to happen because the ABC’s not going to do it but that leaves aside the informal approach. Is the success of the Queensland branch appropriately recognised in your view by the party bosses in the Liberal Party?

CLIVE PALMER: Well we’re all Australians and we’ve got to do what’s best for this country and certainly Queensland can play a role in that.

TONY JONES: My point is in your view does Queensland need to play a bigger role given its comparative success in both Federal and State elections. Is this what this is all about?

CLIVE PALMER: I think it plays a bigger role but it’s not Queensland, it’s about Australia. Victoria and South Australians and Western Australians, Tasmanians need to follow Barry O’Farrell’s lead and ensure there is honesty and integrity in government and the party, the organisation. That’s what’s required. It’s not about Queensland, it’s not about me, it’s not about Bruce McIver.

Governments may rise and fall but an idea goes on forever and I forever believe that we have to have a country where we’ve got honesty and transparency and I’m committed to that as an individual. There’s nothing…

TONY JONES: I must interrupt you there, we have made that point a few times. There are two parallel stories going on here, one is the business about the lobbyist and the other one is the push for McIver to become federal president of the Liberal Party. It’s been interpreted in some areas as kind of Joh-for-Canberra-style push by Queenslanders. Has Tony Abbott put the Queenslanders back in their box?

CLIVE PALMER: I don’t know. I’m talking to you tonight, I don’t see it in that terms. I see it in the terms of what’s right and what’s wrong and what standard we should have. Certainly Bruce McIver can’t push for power federally if he’s not standing for the election. You have to be in the election to win it and I think the fact that he didn’t stand means that we’re hoping that Tony Abbott will have to leadership and will fulfil the promise he’s given to many people across this country and realise it’s an important issue. It’s a challenge for him and he’s capable of doing what’s right and I think then Australians can realise that Tony Abbott’s got the right policies for this country and Julia Gillard’s destroyed it. I support Tony Abbott 100 per cent in the things that he says about policy what we should do but I stand firmly of the view that honesty is the best policy in Government, transparency is important and you can’t have people who take money in positions.

TONY JONES: You don’t support him on a couple of key policies. You clearly don’t support him on asylum seeker policy or this issue of lobbyists in the Liberal Party. Is it undermining morally? Is it morally undermining the party in your view?

CLIVE PALMER: Well, that was put to me in the 1980s about the Fitzgerald inquiry we could lose power if we bring in the Fitzgerald inquiry, we better not do it. Of course it would morally undermine the Government. Is Queensland and Australia better that we did it? I think we are. Did the National party, the Liberal party pay the cost? Yes, they did but they had the political courage to go forward because some things are more important than the short term game. Some things are more important to protect our democracy, protect our freedom of speech and the rights that we’ve got from foreign interference and interference of money and politics.

TONY JONES: Let’s say you take the plunge and you stood in Wayne Swan’s seat, for example, and possibly even won it at the next election, you’d be serving in a Government under Tony Abbott. Would you be comfortable given your various disputes?

CLIVE PALMER: Well I will have to wait until after the weekend to answer that question, Tony. It will be an interesting one to think about.

TONY JONES: You’re making a decision after this weekend, are you?

CLIVE PALMER: Certainly we are and we’ll be looking at Lilley probably by Monday or Tuesday and coming out with a definitive response.

TONY JONES: So we can expect an answer from you about whether or not you’re attempting to stand in the seat of Lilley by early next week, is that right?

CLIVE PALMER: Absolutely, of course you can and that’s my pledge to Australian. I’d like Tony Abbott to pledge he will clean up the party and these things won’t happen again.

TONY JONES: Which way are you leading, it sounds like you’re leaning towards Lilley?

CLIVE PALMER: Lilley is a very good place. The Treasurer made the comment on television that I only visit when I fly in on my corporate jet. The truth is he only visits when he flies in on the government jet. That’s the difference. We believe you have to use your own money rather than the Government’s money to get this economy going and that’s what will happen after the next election.

TONY JONES: Clive Palmer we live in interesting days, we thank you very much for joining us tonight on Lateline.

CLIVE PALMER: Thanks a lot, all the best.