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July 3rd, 2021 
Awake Goy Richard Smith is an in-law of mine, and after he visited Palestine and Israel in 2019 for the first time on an Eyewitness Palestine tour, I asked him for his impressions as a newbie, and recorded the talk. Lately I asked him if I could publish his insights, and he said, Sure. Smith is a Philadelphia-area businessman, married to my wife’s cousin.
Q. Tell me about your trip.
Remember that young girl that stood up to the soldier when she was 16? Ahed Tahimi. We went to Ahed Tamimi’s little village [Nabi Saleh] and her parents’ house and her mother made us lunch and her father Bassem was there and—this was what I thought a lot about on the trip. The father was my age. He looked older. He might be younger. You know—that’s a hard life. He had been shot, imprisoned. And I kept thinking maybe that is me if I’d been a Palestinian. I’d probably have been in jail and probably been shot. You know, how could you not?
I kept thinking, look, if I was a Palestinian, that’s probably me. I would have maybe been lucky to be alive. And only having been shot, once or twice, maybe shot more than that. But it was something I thought about frequently.
This was your first trip. I know you went because of your wife’s interest.
But it was pretty much my idea.
And I regard you as somewhat conservative temperamentally or politically.
That’s totally fair.
So when you identify with the Tamimis, I think any American would, if they only knew.
Correct.
Your parents once worked in Gaza, 50 years ago (Through the American Friends Service Committee). So how much did you know before you went?
Very little. I mean, obviously, you know where it is and you know the history. But I certainly was extremely ignorant about current conditions on the ground. And I consider myself someone that’s pretty aware of current events. I read the Inquirer every day and I read The Wall Street Journal every day and I will pick up articles here and there. And occasionally I read The New York Times Sunday paper. So I’m certainly not oblivious to the events in the world.
But I thought about all the press when we went to Beirut a few years ago. And, people said, You’re crazy Richard, why would you go to Beirut, and even the people in Beirut wanted to know, what are you doing here? I’m sure there’s areas– like any major city–that aren’t safe. But from a political standpoint, I didn’t feel the least bit scared or worried at all.
So I think there is a lot of media distortion about how scary places are in the Middle East. That’s what I thought. I was surprised at that. Because it’s still regarded as this very dangerous spot in the world. And I know it’s fragile. But as a tourist, I didn’t feel any concern at all.
And you had that feeling in Israel too?
From the very beginning. We flew in to Tel Aviv then. And first of all, the group we were with, Eyewitness Palestine briefed us a little bit that– some people on our trip may get hassled at the airport, whether their names looked different or there was some family history that was of concern. So that was the start of it. But I didn’t think much of that one way or the other till the next day when I was walking through the Old City of Jerusalem, and I wasn’t sure what the reason was—but I want to describe the number of soldiers– it was almost unnecessary. I thought, That is an exaggeration.
And then I started to feel, the longer we stayed in Jerusalem that again, I didn’t feel any threat as a tourist there at all. But I thought that maybe there was a reason for it, besides security. Maybe part of the picture was, These American tourists need to see that this is a dangerous place. But we’ve got it covered! We have two policemen or two soldiers at every corner! And you can go home and tell everyone how dangerous it is. And this is why we need your money. And we’re fighting terrorists every day!
Right– we’re in a dangerous neighborhood!
Then a few days into the trip we were walking in the Old City and I heard an American tourist talking, they said, This is a little scary, isn’t it? And I know it must have been someone who was newly arrived. And by then, I didn’t feel quite as ignorant because I didn’t feel that way any longer. And I thought, You know what– that’s what the government wants people to think!
You see those red signs at the roads leading to Palestinian villages in occupied territories.
Yes. Beware. Beware. Beware. You risk your life!
You spent a lot of time in Palestine.
Actually our first day we went to Silwan, which is right outside of the Old City, and we met with a local Palestinian there. And you could see how dejected he was. And you could see what was happening as far as [settlers] encroaching on their little town and creating this mythical city, of the City of David, and how it was perched overlooking this little town. And how frustrated they were and frightened and– really with no recourse.
So my first day, looking and listening to them and hearing their plight, I thought Jeez, the Palestinians have got to capitulate, and take any kind of settlement they can get, any kind of deal, because it’s a slow strangulation!
I felt for them. I felt an urgency. Like– Every day gets worse. The clock’s really ticking. And whatever it is, you better take something, or it’s going to be nothing.
Do you still feel that way?
No, today I think that for both sides, it’s a long game now. It’s really the long game, and you have to stay. Because now it’s pretty clear to anyone that Israel doesn’t want a two state or a one state– nothing. They want people to leave. It’s that simple. And they’re doing everything they can to make it a miserable existence where you can’t make a living, and out of frustration and despair, you pack your bags and leave. By almost any means necessary.
We had front page stories in our country about the political trick of closing the George Washington Bridge. But every day is like the George Washington Bridge closing. You can’t get anywhere. There were multiple checkpoints. And you can only imagine how frustrating and degrading that would be. And that’s every day.
Where else did you go in Palestine?
Hebron was really depressing. And to walk through the city there and particularly the area where there was a market, which is barely existing any longer. But looking above us and having wire netting along the main thoroughfare in this little market, and above it were bottles of– things that had been thrown by the settlers down on to the Palestinian merchants, bottles of urine and trash, and they throw stuff out of their apartments right on to them. One story we heard was about throwing acid on them.
I was not prepared for that. I don’t know who would hate someone that much to want to do that.
How long were you in Hebron?
Just an afternoon. But something else happened there. I saw what to me looked like two Americans coming towards us, but they were escorted by four or five Israeli soldiers with rifles. One in front, one on each side. And I made my way towards them and, because they were Americans, I was hoping to have a conversation with them. But before I got too close– the rifle kind of came out, you know, to push me away, when it was clearly evident that I’m a tourist– I’m some kind of harmless bystander.
It was an unnecessary reaction. Because I wasn’t at all threatening. But again, for me, these were American dignitaries, and I think it was part of the deal. Traveling in this big escort of soldiers was, again, to illustrate this is a dangerous place. And “Okay, we’ll take you–. But you need to have a five-soldier escort through Hebron.”
That’s kind of the narrative that is played up. And it all contributes to a good story. Our security is paramount no matter what happens.
You did not feel unsafe when you were there?
No, not at all. The only time I felt unsafe we were in East Jerusalem and we were standing outside of a settlement in the city. That’s another thing that was interesting to me. I used to think the settlements were some dusty outcrop, in the desert somewhere. We came to learn that settlements are in the city and settlements can be anywhere. And it’s not just housing. It can be a police department. It can be a college, it can be lots of different things.
We’re in our group and trying to find one of the leaders of our group, at his grandparents’ house. And we stopped and we’re having a little discussion– and someone starts throwing pieces of ice at me. I thought it was a kid. And I didn’t think anything of it, and another piece came. And then I could see in the corner of my eye, I looked up at the apartment behind us– a grown man was throwing ice cubes at me. And it was a settler. I looked at him. We made eye contact and then we had a little exchange.
Then he turned directly to me and he screamed, “Mohamed’s a dog.” I said, “Really?” “Yes!”
And Mohammed the dog—that was the person talking to us. He was this man’s enemy. So the settler was conveying an important message from his standpoint. He said, Get out of here. Move on.
He understood that there was a delegation in his area.
Yes. Some kind of people that were not on his side. And this was right in East Jerusalem. Pretty close to the Old City. Not far from Damascus gate. [Near Sheikh Jarrah, scene of recent evictions.]
It irritated me. I really wanted to confront him more, but the group– we moved along.
And it wasn’t just the racism, not just the ice cube or the Islamic threat. He didn’t know what I was doing really. He insinuated that I was not on his side, yes.
But the meanness– it was the meanness.
Well back to your question, What would make people hate other people so much?
I think it’s a combination of things. But I felt it more from the Israeli side than I did the Palestinian side. And I expected that maybe it should have been the opposite.
I don’t even know how they drive around together based on what’s going on. I don’t know how there’s not altercations at every stop sign.
You don’t have to be a radical to have these feelings. I’d like to believe I’m a decent person – when I think about how I’d react and how unfair things were. But the additional feeling, the different emotion for me was that it’s all being portrayed so incorrectly. That compounds it, in my opinion. That’s what makes it so unfair. When I’m treated unfairly, I act temperamentally. That’s why I’m surprised there isn’t more violence.
I think it’s miraculous, actually. I think it’s miraculous that Palestinians–how controlled they are.
I can see now when I read the paper after the trip, and really listen to some of these politicians and realize— They really don’t know. And if I went on some of the delegations with them, where they went, I’m sure I’d still not know. They go and do different things and they’re not exposed to what’s happening. Or they’re like those dignitaries in Hebron. Getting a guided tour.
I want to read you a tweet that was sent out from a Michigan congressman yesterday [Nov. 6, 2019.] He went to a village in the Hebron Hills with J Street, the liberal Zionist organization. He wrote, “Yesterday, I traveled to the southern West Bank, including a Palestinian village of Susiya, which the Israeli government has destroyed twice and currently denies access to water. Yet we watch the government utility right before our eyes lay in pipes right across the village’s land to deliver a tap water to an illegal Israeli outpost nearby. It was simply incredible. As angry as the situation made me, the resilience of the Palestinian villagers left an even stronger impression.” Now, when I read that tweet, I hear you, too.
Yes, absolutely. I mean, 100 percent.
But if Andy Levin was your congressperson, you presumably would be expecting him to act on what he saw.
That’s right. Well I have even sent something to Elizabeth Warren. Fairly recently she said something about conditioning aid. She might limit aid based on the settlement rate and something like that. And I commended her on that. And said I hope she’ll continue to think that way. And I’m a Republican, but I wanted to explain– It’s not a political issue as far as I’m concerned. It’s just the right cause.
Many non-Jews have apprehensions about the whole singling Israel out issue. How did that framework affect your engagement on this question in the past? How is it going to affect you going forward?
Well, I have Jewish friends and Jewish partners. And I don’t go out of my way to tell them what I’ve seen. But certainly at times I have discussed the trip with them and what I’ve witnessed. And I think they think I’m someone that’s pretty reasonable and someone who has pretty good insight and not a fool. And so I can frame it in a way that’s not combative, but as a matter of fact—an eyewitness account. So one Jewish friend in particular, listened. I got a lot of Hmmm, hmmm. And he really didn’t want to get into it, so I didn’t need to get into it any more. From some conversations it’s become apparent to me that like most Americans, they don’t have a full understanding of the situation.
Do you think it’s important to get the Jewish community to buy in on this point politically?
Absolutely. It’s important. Well, it’s important for every group to buy in. But I think certainly their opinion would push the ball forward for reform moreso than any other group. They’ve got a real interest and experience and history.
I imagine there’s a lot of places you could go in the world and be shocked by conditions. Why are you engaged on this one?
Well, that’s interesting. I mean, I think the majority of the world, public opinion, including the American press would agree on many countries where the human rights issues are known—China, for instance. And everyone’s for the Hong Kong movement, everyone can kind of agree on that. And there isn’t really any debate. But in this Palestinian Israel issue, when it comes to the Palestinian side– the majority of people don’t know, or if they think they do, it’s a misconception.
So I think that they’re the double underdog.
Have you talked to your sons about it?
I have. Because I very much want them to go. One son in particular is very political. And when I went there was a little bit of an eye roll. Well you know, dad, that’s not a country, Palestine. That kind of smart alec stuff. I want them to see it firsthand.
Now that I’ve been there, I don’t consider it a political issue, but the way they’ve already perceived it is as political.
Are you optimistic about where our country is going to go on this question? After she went over first, your wife said in a line that I’ve often quoted, The kids are on social media, they change stuff in a hurry. Look at #MeToo. They can alter the discourse in an eye blink. I think that Betsy is not quite as optimistic on that score as she was then, but what do you think of that theory of change?
I see it. And now that I’m more aware of the situation, when I do see stories, particularly lately on college campuses, I do think the awareness is building momentum. And I think the more you hear about– the hypocrisy of shutting down people that are part of the BDS movement and maligning people that they’re antisemites, I think that helps build momentum. I really do.
You mean, when all these states are signing legislation and people are prevented from speaking it’s so palpably unfair that they won’t get away with it?
Yes, absolutely.
I get the feeling that you are optimistic about change here.
I’d like to be but I’m not sure. I mean, it’s hard to feel optimistic for the Palestinians, but I think maybe they just kind of feel like, Okay, we’re in it for the long haul and this is the way it’s going to be, and — obviously, something has to give some time.
So between Silwan and Nabi Salah, the change in your viewpoint was you gained respect for this Palestinian concept of sumud or steadfastness. We’re just going to stick around and long game. And if that means our kids are going to be imprisoned and shot and I’m going to get shot and be in prison– that’s just table stakes.
You can’t leave. You can’t leave. And you hope world opinion changes and particularly in the United States, you hope that opinion changes. Because the long run– I think that’s the only way. I don’t see any other solution.
Would you be all tempted if you lived there to get your children out?
I guess you’d want them to leave, but maybe hopefully they could stay long enough to make the decision themselves.
You’re a dad. You wouldn’t try to decide for them?
Correct. Also there is a sense there that if they take a step off their land for three minutes– You’re out! Someone else is there. You abandoned it!
And I think that’s a courageous decision, to stay.
So where are the Palestinian voices in mainstream media?
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